Jesus said that his true disciples would love him more than family. (Matthew 10:37) Therefore, ex-JWs worthy of reinstatement should be returning because they love Jesus more than family - not because of wanting to restore family association. If they truly love Jesus more than family they would still return despite their family continuing to communicate with them, because they will value their relationship with Jesus as a prize to be attained above and beyond their relationship with their family.
Your organization says that ex-JWs are unlikely to return if their family fails to shun them. Doesn't this claim imply that love of family is prized more than love of Jesus? By using family shunning to coerce your ex-JW relatives to return, aren't you unwittingly contradicting the principle of Matthew 10:37? For you see, the tactic of deprivation only works as a tool of manipulation if the thing being withheld is valued more by the subject, than the demand being made of him.
A kidnapper keeps your relative hostage unless you hand over money. Why? He's working on the assumption that you love the relative more than money. A mother withholds candy from her child until he eats his spinach. Why? She's working on the assumption that he loves candy more than spinach. So when Watchtower teaches you to withhold your familial association to coerce your disfellowshipped relative to return - are they not unwittingly assuming/implying that family association is valued above love of Jesus?
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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Lurking JWs, if you're to love Jesus more than family, does it make sense to withhold family to coerce persons to return to Jesus?
by Island Man injesus said that his true disciples would love him more than family.
(matthew 10:37) therefore, ex-jws worthy of reinstatement should be returning because they love jesus more than family - not because of wanting to restore family association.
if they truly love jesus more than family they would still return despite their family continuing to communicate with them, because they will value their relationship with jesus as a prize to be attained above and beyond their relationship with their family.
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Island Man
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JWs destroy archaelogical artifacts
by John Doe inthousands of years old.
this makes my blood boil.. http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/jehovahs-witnesses-destroy-ancient-indigenous-temple-in-mexico-20160628-0009.html.
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Island Man
"The point is whether the JW community or its organization condones or promotes these acts, and to be fair the answer to that is no."
I agree. But Watchtower does bear some indirect responsibility for shaping the religiously bigoted minds some of which may feel motivated to go on to do such acts. Watchtower unwittingly contributes to creating motives for such acts to be committed.
I think the real issue here is about accuracy in ascribing blame, if indeed the act was done by JWs. It would be technically correct to say it was done by JWs. But such statement needs to be clarified to make it known that it was done by rogue individual JWs and their action is not representative of typical JW conduct and is not encouraged or condoned by JWs as a group.
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What Music have you Been Listening to this Last Year ? Post You tubes if you Like !
by flipper inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wktxjuyiat4.
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JWs destroy archaelogical artifacts
by John Doe inthousands of years old.
this makes my blood boil.. http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/jehovahs-witnesses-destroy-ancient-indigenous-temple-in-mexico-20160628-0009.html.
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Island Man
I don't think it the least bit implausible that a few recently converted rogue JWs could do something like that. Maybe the rogue JWs are members of the indigenous group and formerly worshiped at the shrine and now that they're learning from the JWs they feel the need to affirm their stance for pure worship and renounce their former course of false worship by engaging in this act. Maybe they were inspired by the actions of Gideon.
Whatever the case, I don't see how anyone can honestly say that JWs wouldn't or couldn't do something like this. JWs condemn all other religions as false and part of Babylon the Great; they often consider the example of faithful kings who destroyed altars and shrines used for false worship. It does't require any stretch of the imagination to see how/why a rogue JW could do something like this.
Yes, JWs are taught to not use violence and not take matters into their own hands by acting physically against false worshipers and apostates, etc. Yes, the vast majority of JWs would never do something like this and it would be unfair to give the impression that such conduct is typical of JW culture and condoned or encouraged by the organization. We can fairly say that the behavior is atypical for JWs but we cannot outright dismiss the possibility of it being done by a few rogue JWs.
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100-million man hours
by Coded Logic inthe james webb telescope is set to launch in october of 2018 and will allow us to study the formation of first generation stars, the molecular clouds that became the first galaxies, and directly image exoplanets.
roughly one hundred times more powerful than the hubble space telescope the jwst is going to push back the current boundaries of science.. this is what 100-million man hours can accomplish.. .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8p0samsz7m.
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Island Man
Science is the genuine pursuit of truth. Religion is the arrogant and ignorant assertion of ancient and ignorant myths, as truth.
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Richmond, Virginia Convention Lowlights: 11-year-old Baptized / Porn Seen Accidentally
by Funchback inhttp://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_8dec9e79-b243-5265-80ee-fee138922f80.html.
at this rate, soon they'll let infants get dipped:.
lindsey jackson, 14, of king george county was among the 33 people who were baptized saturday during the first convention of jehovah’s witnesses of the summer at the richmond coliseum.
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Island Man
the 'accidental' porn thing with JWs is so fucking hilarious.
I know right. Porn does not pop-up on your computer unless you visit porn sites. And today most browsers have built in pop-up blockers. Wholly innocent accidental porn pop-ups is a thing that happened over a decade ago, so recent JW experiences with accidental porn pop-ups mean that someone in the house has been deliberately viewing porn and don't know how to clear cookies and browsing history and/or use pop-up blocker. LOL.
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Richmond, Virginia Convention Lowlights: 11-year-old Baptized / Porn Seen Accidentally
by Funchback inhttp://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_8dec9e79-b243-5265-80ee-fee138922f80.html.
at this rate, soon they'll let infants get dipped:.
lindsey jackson, 14, of king george county was among the 33 people who were baptized saturday during the first convention of jehovah’s witnesses of the summer at the richmond coliseum.
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Island Man
This thread was such a bummer! I was hoping that they accidentally played porn on the big screen at the convention.
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Why the Bible cannot be the work of an all-wise God that epitomizes love.
by Island Man inthere's simply no way to honestly deny that the ot condones genocide, slavery and misogyny.
there are too many passage showing yahweh commanding his people to wipe out this nation and that nation - women and innocent children included!
it leaves us with a god who wrote a book that very, very, very much seems like it condones genocide, but it doesn't, etc.. what kind of god does that?
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Island Man
Wasanelder Once: Haven't you heard of "tough love"? Sheesh.
More like trolling. Yahweh is a cosmic troll. LOL.
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Why the Bible cannot be the work of an all-wise God that epitomizes love.
by Island Man inthere's simply no way to honestly deny that the ot condones genocide, slavery and misogyny.
there are too many passage showing yahweh commanding his people to wipe out this nation and that nation - women and innocent children included!
it leaves us with a god who wrote a book that very, very, very much seems like it condones genocide, but it doesn't, etc.. what kind of god does that?
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Island Man
problemaddict 2: Would you be willing to attach the scriptural refferences for the accounts you use to illustrate your point? You may have them handy. If not, i can research and grab em.
Feel free to do so. I don't remember the book, chapter and verse citations. I was working from my memory of the narratives.
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Why the Bible cannot be the work of an all-wise God that epitomizes love.
by Island Man inthere's simply no way to honestly deny that the ot condones genocide, slavery and misogyny.
there are too many passage showing yahweh commanding his people to wipe out this nation and that nation - women and innocent children included!
it leaves us with a god who wrote a book that very, very, very much seems like it condones genocide, but it doesn't, etc.. what kind of god does that?
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Island Man
There's simply no way to honestly deny that the OT condones genocide, slavery and misogyny. There are too many passage showing Yahweh commanding his people to wipe out this nation and that nation - women and innocent children included! The execution of innocent children is wholly inexcusable.
We also have passages showing Yahweh killing his own people - innocent people - for the sins of their king. There is an account of Yahweh killing Isaelites for David's sin. We also have the Achan account of Yahweh allowing his people to go off to battle the enemy without informing them that they lacked his divine protection and blessing because of the secret sin of someone in their midst - Achan. He only tells them of this after they go off to battle and some of them die! Such a god is not worthy of trust. Such a god allows the innocent to die for the sins of the guilty.
There is also an account in the OT where Yahweh kills some of his own people who were rejoicing at the returning of the Ark of the covenant from an enemy nation. Why did he kill them? Just because they happened to see the sacred chest on its route back to the tabernacle. And Jesus condemned the pharisees for being heartless sticklers for the law!
Apologists come up with all manner of mental gymnastics to ease their cognitive dissonance and defend the clear immorality of their god. They say we don't have all the details; that god's thoughts are higher than ours; that we have to look at the context; that he saw some other evil flaws in the hearts of those he killed and that aren't mentioned in the account - all manner of pitiable, stretched excuses are used to justify their continued worship of a clearly immoral being.
Well let's hypothetically grant the apologists some slack. Let's accept their BS excuses as being valid, just for the sake of argument. Where does that leave us? It leaves us with a god who wrote a book with instructions that seem very, very, very similar to misogyny, but actually aren't. It leaves with a god who who wrote a book that very, very, very much seems like it supports slavery, but it doesn't. It leaves us with a god who wrote a book that very, very, very much seems like it condones genocide, but it doesn't, etc.
What kind of god does that? What kind of god would write such a book that very strongly seems to be condoning immoral and cruel acts - but actually isn't? What kind of god will do that even while knowing that many immoral religionists will abuse such ambiguous texts to persuade their followers to be misogynists, genocidists and enslavers of their fellow man? You see because these texts are so ambiguous it makes it very easy for wicked men to abuse them to get large numbers of otherwise good people, to engage in wicked conduct. These men only have to cite these ambiguous texts together with other texts that say god's thoughts are higher than human thoughts; and trust in god and not your own understanding and boom! You have the perfect recipe to persuade many otherwise good people to commit evil acts while thinking its the right thing to do and suppressing the prodding of their conscience - their "imperfect", "sinful" conscience that must be ignored to obey the will of god as expressed through their evil religious leaders who can so easily and effortlessly cite these ambiguous texts that seem to condone evil acts.
Surely an all-wise and loving god would have foreseen that! Surely an all-wise and loving god would have been more responsible in his portrayal of himself and his standards of righteousness by making it unambiguously clear in both the OT and the NT that he detests slavery, misogyny and genocide. By doing so he would have made it far more difficult for wicked men to abuse the bible for evil ends, thus resulting in less suffering and needless deaths. There would still be wicked people doing wicked things. But clear unequivocal texts condemning such evils and an absence of ambiguous texts that seem to portray Yahweh as commanding and condoning such evils, would have made it extremely difficult for these wicked men to abuse the bible to get people to do evil deeds. The amount of suffering resulting from abuse of the bible would thus be drastically reduced.
In other words, even if we concede to the excuses of apologists, we are still not left with a good god. We are left with a god who has proven himself to be a grossly irresponsible author who has inspired ambiguous words ripe for abuse by wicked men for the oppression and enslavement of others. So apologists, if you're wrong, your god is an immoral god who commands and condones evil conduct. If you're right, your god is an unwise and grossly irresponsible author, whose irresponsibly ambiguous writings have inspired much suffering and injustice.